and it is the full, unvarnished story of what's happened to immediate businesses in america by focusing on the story of the tribune company. page 1 is a book in our series of back poofs we have done with participant media. we've done waiting for superman, and this is their rell film, it's called page 1, inside "the new york times". and we had done a week with an npr media reporter that is a collection of essays by in different contributors writing about media, again, taking this subject onthe film's limitations. ..
year. we think he gives an incredible portrait of both in his own words and reflections on the career. >> we've been talking with susan weinberg. publishers of public affairs books. publicaffairsbooks.com is the web site. >> you are here because you know jim rogan and you admire what he's done and you know something about his book. if you want to do early
background, you have to read the book "rough edges." which i think many of you know. it's about his life from welfare to washington. and it's fascinateing because he has incured a tough like which he all of the sudden said this isn't for me and picked himself up and dusted himself off and went on ton very successful in public service. he's a good friend of ours. he first met richard nixon because he had an obsession with presidential memorabilia. i'm not kidding. i won't let his wife talk about how many is in the garage, or
all over his home. but he's been kind enough to share a lot of it with us. we have much it on display here. that's when he first met richard nixon has a young man. he'll probably tell you a little bit about that. but he's a neighbor. the rogans live here, and he was a member of our board for quite some time before he went on the bench in two or three years ago. but his life and public service and legal professor began in '83 when he graduated from law school. he was a practicing attorney. very successful and private legal practice. he was deputy da in los angeles, he was the youngest musical court judge elected. he went on to be a congressman. you know him as a congressman. he also served as under
secretary of commerce in washington after serving as congressman. and he was head of our pat tent office. then he came back here and did private practice and he was drafted into the judiciary where he now serves. he's done not only rough -- "rough edges" which was a fashion mating book about his life, but "catching our flag" which you are here to hear about. and that book deals with his assignment as one the principal managers to help on the prosecution of the president president clinton a few years ago. he kept copious notes. he's never really, i don't think, talked about it publicly. he decided to commit his memory and notes to a book just for
archives and for the sake of history. er here to hear about that. it's my pleasure to introduce him, congressman james rogan. >> thank you. thank you, sir. [applause] [applause] >> sandy, thank you. sandy and i are old friends. i've known him for over 20 years. special thanks to all of my friends here at the nixon library and foundation for hosting this. for those of us that live in north orange county, in fact, anywhere in southern california, you know what a great resource, a tremendous resource the nixon library is. the number of programs they put on for kids and free things they do. i'm especially grateful to all of the volunteers. can we have a round of applause for all of the people that do such a great job? [applause] [applause] >> and if you allow me a moment, as we used to say in congress, a point of personal privilege. if i were going through all of
the introductions that i would like to do, i would burn up all of my time. suffice to say, i have a number of dear friends and family and colleagues. i have to introduce the judges. when a judge pays $8 for a ticket, they don't get introduced, you never hear the end of it. my colleague, judge stanford from the superior court, rick. [applause] >> and judge craig griffin, my other colleague from the superior court. craig? [applause] >> and a special love and thanks and affection for people that worked on my assembly and my congressional staff that are here as well. i want to -- i wasn't going to talk too much about this. since sandy gave me the introduction, i will. richard nixon played in the introduction a very important role in my young life. i grew up in san francisco in the very blue collar low income family. we were all union detectives.
if there was a republican in san francisco, i never met one. but i was total political junky, i loved history, government, and politics. in 1972 when president nixon was running for reelection, i was only 14. i get this thing in the mail that says we had the group called young voters for the president. if you are between the ages of 18 and 40. that was young, you can pay for $240, we will put you on a charter plane, fly you to miami beach for the republican national convention, hotel food, everything paid for, you can get into the convention. i had $240 saved up. i was 14. i learned at a early age, it's far better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. [laughter] >> i walked down to the local 7/11, i got a money order for $200, i sent in it. when my mom came home, i said
here's the thing, i'm going to miami beach by myself for a week. i'm 14. i'm going to get on the airplane, fly to miami from california, i'm going to spend a whole week there, and probably come home at the end of the week. and my mom said you are 14. you can't do that. you can't go 3,000 miles away all by yourself with no parental supervision. and i said, mom, i'm going to be with 20,000 republicans. how many trouble can i get into? and she said, you are right, you can go. so. [laughter] >> i had this impression, i must be honest, i had the impression of republicans, stiff, stayed, no run, and i thought this is really going to just be 20,000 boring people. i'm going to get on the plane. i will have a chance to go collect lots and lots of political memorabilia for the collection. i take the plane down to lax where they had the holding area. at midnight, they put us on a charter plane.
it's filled up with young voters for the president. i had never been on a charter plane. i learned when you get on a charter plane for 18-40, there is no waiting for the pilot to say we are in the altitude, you can get out of your seats. that was not ten seconds, made a beeline to the liquor cabinet. they passed out booze. within minutes, they are having, dancing, having party, i'm taking this in as a kid. the only person who wasn't that way was my seat mate. this woman, i'm going to put her about 28 or so. she was right out of central casting if you were looking for school marm. hair in a bun, somebody offered her a glass of wine. she took it. and another, and another. as we are flying for hours, she started to complaining it's getting really hot on this airplane. the bun came out of her hair.
buttons started getting unbuttoned. i'm going to guess we were somewhere over kansas she's looking at me after about 12 drinks. and she said, you are a really nice guy. you seem like you are easy to talk to. can i tell you a secret? i said, sure. she said, i have a personality disorder. [laughter] >> that piqued my interest. i said what is it? she said i'm a nympomaniac. now i must tell you as one who was educated in the public schools in san francisco bay area, i did not know much geometry, but i knew what that
meant. she looked at me and she said, how old are you? and i said 37. so the point of this is from that experience going to miami beach, seeing president nixon renominated for a second term as president, almost 40 years ago, i came home and learned a very valuable lesson that in america, there truly is a vibrant two-party system and san francisco democrats should not be so narrow minded. anyway. all right. i guess i should move on to the subject that i'm here to talk about. it is my book. i want to make a preliminary observation. bob patwood, he's a former senate, he's very bad for history. some of you may remember that name. he was a senator for 25 years. about 20 years ago, he was
accused of sexual harassment from some staffers and lobbyist. as the senate was investigating this. somewhere it turned out that somebody disclosed that for 25 years, every single day, senator packwood took copious notes. he took a daily diary. he not only wrote down the legislative, but what he ate, what clothes, and also ever pass, i think, he ever made at another woman. the senatesoned his diaries. he ended up having to resign. when i got to washington as the total history junky nut who always felt more like a frustrated historian than a politician. i felt it was important for the time i was there to keep a careful diary. during the impeachment, i gotten the judiciary committee one day before the monica lewinsky story
was revealed. i knew that nobody was keeping -- if anybody -- if somebody didn't keep a careful record, then for future historians, they would to have rely on faulty memory or motives. from the very first day, i started bringing my legal pads into every behind-the-scenes meetings and taking the words coming out of their mouths. a congressman sitting next to me looked at me. he said are you keeping a diary? i said, yeah, this could be important history. he said that violated the packwood rule. nobody does that. you can't keep a diary. i said what's the packwood rule? they can'tson what they don't write down. look around the room. do you see anybody else taking notes? other than the occasional doodle, i didn't think anything. i think i said this is
interesting. i kept writing. he said dumbass. i felt this would be an important archive. why publish this now? why not 11 or 12 years ago? i had a number waving. everybody knew i was keeping a diary after a while. it was not a secret. people seemed to not care. it became background nose. after president clinton's impeachment 12 years ago, i had a bunch of publishers say this would be a great book. i refused to write the book. i didn't feel that was the time. i didn't want to write a book while i was in congress and tempted to color my participation or try to appease an angry electorate, and to fairness to president clinton, wait ten clears to let passions cool and be far more objective. that's why i've waited all this time. in fact, when i was defeated for re-election right after the clinton impeachment as a result
of the:ton impeachment, the first guy to take me out to lunch and probably knew i needed a free lunch was speaker newt gingrich. he took me to lunch and started writing and planning my life for me during the lunch. he started writing down several books. impeachment is not your first book. the first book should be the one that sandy told you about "rough edges." you want to wait a while. i took his advise. the reason that i wrote "rough edges" which talked about how i got to washington is because newt encouraged me. he thought it would be inspirational. the book actually sold out. i still get people sending it to me eight years later to sign it. which is very gratifying. although i tend to find they are borrowed copies. i'm not getting royalties from it anymore. the premise of the book is important because my mom was not the traditional mother of a future congressman. she was a single mom on welfare and food stamps raised four
kids, she was a convicted felon in and out of jail, i dropped out of high school, i went to support -- i went to work to help support the family. i was running with a bad crowd. we were getting in trouble. going break ins, stealing cars, at some point i decided if i'm going to run for congress, which was my goal from the fourth grade, i probably have to sort of straighten up and get an education. so the book chronicles just how very tough it is for kids that lived from that kind of life to turn their lives around and the hurdles that are there, and it can be done. if you work at it. i tell the story of how i got true finally college and law school, bar tepidding all over hollywood. i worked in a female mud wrestling and hells angels bar, i worked in an all black bar, in between bartender, i worked at a bouncer at a pornographic movie theater. all of the things, of course, that prepare you for a life in congress. [laughter]
>> when i was -- when i was in congress, i used to love to sit and listen to somebody name kennedy lecture me about what it's like to be poor. i thought it was very illuminated. i wrote this book for another reason. when we were going through the impeachment, i kept hearing they are impeaching big clinton and nothing could have been further from the truth. all of these are mistaken and false assumptions that people had out there that are just the opposite of what was really happening behind the scenes. i get to congress after the 30 year voyage. the reason that i tell you is because you need to know manage.
when somebody comes from that kind of basket, sets their goal, and works their heart out and gets there, i was in no hurry to leave. i was not there to throw away a career to get even with some guy for having an affair, after i had the youthful background. i get to washington, d.c. for what they call freshman orientation. i got elected, within a week, back in d.c. to teach us how to be a congressman. one the great heros in congress calls me and says he'd like to meet with me. he was henry hyde. chairman of the house judiciary. before impeachment, before that time, henry was one the most beloved and respected members of the house. he was a reason nans man almost in the 19th century. he was funny, charming, brilliant, kind, everybody loved henry. as the chairman of the house judiciary committee inviting me to come see him, being a form gang murder prosecutor and a
former judge, it was my home that he was going to ask me to be the judiciary committee. when i mentioned it to chairman hyde has called me, they all went apresident-elected. bill pacson, senior member from new york, he was the chairman, meaning in charge of getting us re-elected he sat me down and said you have to turn it down. it will be the death in your district. you represent the hollywood movie studios. you won with 50.1% when the top of your ticket, bob dole, got down out by 20 points. you can't be on the judiciary committee. the last thing you need, no offense to c-span, being on tv fighting with barnny frank and maxine waters over guns and abortion. you need to get on the commerce committee. i went and saw chairman hyde, i told him i'm flattered. thank you. the answer is no.
i'll be with you on the votes that matter. i'm a social conservative. i don't need to get into all of the fighting. the next year henry kept coming and saying you are just the guy, i want you on the committee. i love to have you. for the same, i kept rebuffing him in a nice way. towards the end of the first year in congress, he found my achilles heel. he said you are a member. you got most of the hollywood movie studios. they are life blood and it's intellectual property and protecting intellectual property. he said we have an intellectual property subcommittee. that would be good for your district if you could be back there protecting the economic interests, wouldn't it? he said it would. okay. we have no openings. we'll have an opening in a year and a half when we get the next congress. we cut the deal, year and a half. a couple of months after that,
my resolved friend sonny bono who was a gracious guy, got killed in a skiing accident. i have to say a word. i loved him. we became fast friends. he knew my background. he loved it. he had a similar story. in fact, i remember sitting with him one night on the floor of representatives. sonny, it was about two or three, i'm trying to fall asleep. we were there for meaningless series. sonny couldn't get enough. he was just in awe of the institution. he demonstrated more of it than maybe i should have. i'm falling asleep next to him. can you believe? look at this. lincoln served here. yeah, lincoln served here. and webster, daniel webster served here. yeah, webster. john f. kennedy and all of these people. i guess i'm blowing him off.
he elbows me and said you ought to be ashamed of yourself. look at you. you used to be a bartender on the sunset trip. he said, i used to drive a meat truck on the sunset strip. here, members of congress. looking around. and he said, did you ever -- did you ever just stop and wonder how we ever got here? by this time, i'd have enough chattering. i looked at him and said, sonny, i look around every day and i wonder how you got here. [laughter] i know how i got here. i went to law school. i'm still trying to figure you out. anyway. a few months after i had that congress with chairman hyde, 1998, sonny was killed in a skiing accident. i tell you these dates for a reason to tell you how fate works. on january 9th, i went to palm springs for the funeral. they had all of us sitting in
the side chapel, i'm in there were sher and former president ford. who comes and sits next to me? chairman hyde. he loves sonny. henry was a big irish, very emotional, sentimental is really the word. sentimental guy. as we are talking about sonny, henry is sitting next to me and he just starts crying. i'm watching one of my heros crying in front of me. it's choking me up. i'm a tough guy. i was raised by my grandfather. i'm not one the crying public kind of guy. he's killing me. he pulls out the handkerchief. he starts crying. now i'm doing the same thing. i'm telling him to stop. he said i can't stop. he's crying and crying. while he's crying, he says this to me, you know, jim, sonny was on the judiciary committee.
[laughter] >> i mean like the body is being wield in. he's telling me, sonny was on the judiciary committee, and you remember we had that conversation and i got to pick another guy to take his place and you are my guy. and i'm feeling this is kind of sacrilege. i said, mr. chairman, this is just not the time or place to talk about this. but i'll take it. [laughter] >> because i was on the commerce committee, it was one the committee that you can't serve on another if you are on the commerce committee. no problem, i'll do a trade with
the democratic. henry hyde sends a letter to speaker gingrich. the speaker approves it, i get the phone call, you've been approved, you are going on the judiciary committee. the next morning as i was drinking my cup of coffee i open up the "washington post" and there it is. the monica lewinsky story is all over the front page. and i was off to the races. what happened after that, i get back to my office. there were 20 tv cameras. i'm just vended. all of these people are shoving microphones. i'm here to beef up patents. they said you are a liar. it really was just a consequence. one the things of collecting memorabilia came back to
helping. when i got to congress, the democratics who had been in a majority for years for out of power. one the senior detectives was john conyers. i spent many years when i saw conyers sitting alone. i'd want to talk to him about his years of service. he was the only living member of congress still serving who actually served on the water gate committee. whenever i would sit down and talk to john, he would blow me off. john was now the ranking democrat on the house judiciary. i knew he wasn't favorably predisposed to the republicans in general. but because i was a collector of political memorabilia, i wanted to break the ice with him. and i went home one weekend and shuffled through my collection and found something. and i sat down next to john one night on the house floor before the house lewinsky thing happened.
as he started to walk away, i grabbed him by the arm. i said do you remember about 30 years ago, teddy kennedy coming to your district in detroit and doing a rally. he looked at me like how do you know that? yes, that was the biggest rally in the history of any district. never had a rally like that. do you remember seeing a yellow campaign button? it said the people's choice. kennedy for president, conyers for vice president. he said i saw those buttons. in fact, i told my staff, get me one of those. they never did. they never caved me one. i reached into my pockets. i said, john, i saved it for you. i walked away. i didn't think anything of it at the time. my first day on the jew dish yay committee, i got on the committee with lindsey graham. we become the new members. and the water -- the impeachment
is in bull bloom. the bless is there and everybody is consuming this is going to be fire works in the committee. henry, by tradition, introduces the new members. he does a little introduction of me and lindsay. john conyers said mr. chairman, will you yield. all of the congressmans behind me are whispering, here it goes. he's going to go nuts. he's going to scream it's a farce. they are putting them on to impeach the president. i'm thinking conyers is going to kill us. conyers said i joined with my colleague the chairman in welcoming congressman jim rogan to this committee. congressman rogan, a former judge, a fine man, a great statesman. he's going on and on about what a wonderful edition of the committee. all of the republicans are starting to do this. looking at me.
you know, what's this all about? they are looking at me suspiciously. he goes on. i want to welcome him. then he looked at lindsey graham, and he said, mr. chairman, i yield back the balance of my time. collecting campaign helped me out. i wasn't on the committee long when newt gingrich called and said he had a home work assignment. he said, you know, we don't know what's going to happen with this special prosecutor ken star was working in secret. we didn't know what he was putting together. remember, judge star for three or four years, he was investigating white water, travelgate, all of these different hush money to pay to former staffers that went to prison and, you know, renting
the lincoln. there were all of the things that judge was investigating. and now he had to pick up the lewinsky issue as well. speaker came to me, he said i need somebody to draft the protocol. what do we do if a report recommending impeaching the president comes? we don't know what he's got. we don't know what to do. he said i want you to go out and track down and interview former members of congress, democratics and republicans who were involved in previous investigations of a president. and find out what worked, what didn't. what are the mistake that is were made, how do we avoid them? i said we'll do that. as long as we let you introview last. you have to be the last interview. i agreed to that. i interviewed 10 or 12 people. i talk about it in the book. fred thompson from watergate.
he was chief congressman. of all of the interviews, the one that i thought was the most fascinating was former chairman of the house judiciary, the name will be familiar because he was the democratic of the chairman of the house judiciary that led to the impeachment investigation s, former chairman is out of congress for 10 or 20 years by time. he was still deeping law school one day a week. he was, i think,92. i called him up. i said, mr. chairman, i told him what i wanted to do. he told me no. he said you can't come. i'm not going to talk to you. he said, i support president clinton. i don't want to give the -- you come up and talk to me like i'm helping you. that's going to give the impression that i'm somehow behind this or i'm okay with it and i'm not going to let it happen. here i'm four or five months in
congress. i was pretty bold. i said, i'm sorry, that is not acceptable. you are spent 40 years of your life. you love this house. i have assigned to make sure we draft a protocols that is fair. you are a person that has unique knowledge in this. you have to give me your time. i am going to fly up there. you'll have to meet with me. peter said fine, one half hour. that's all you get. i flew up to new jersey to see him. i one -- i had our dip si chief and chief investigators. i said you guys wait outside. i don't want to spook him. i'm going to go in and talk to him and see if i can get him to losen up. if i can't, i got an ace in the whole. i go in to see chairman who was 92, but he was sharp.
he had with him a witness. who was, i guess, another law professor. a guy looked like a law professor. he had big beard, long hair, big socks, turd -- turtle neck i don't know, he was just sitting there. both of them sitting there, not smiling, he turned to the witness who turned on the tape reporter. he said you have 30 minutes. he launched into a record. all of the stuff. he was saying he wasn't there to answer questions. he was there to give me a lecture. now he said i will hear from you. how do you view this? i'm here to do the right thing. this is not partisan thing. it has to be fair. turned off the tape recorder. thank you for coming. he stood up, the other guy stood
up. it's time to pull out the atomic bomb. i shook hands. i said, mr. chairman, i want to thank you for keeping two promises to me. he said what are the two promises? promise number one, you told me you'd give me a half hour of your time. you did that. promise number two is this, i reached into the coat pocket. i handed him a piece of paper. when i was 17, i had my first trip to washington, d.c. i thought, hey, as long as i'm going to washington, i ought to meet all of the big movers and shakers giving me advice. i started writing, hi, i'm 17, i'm from washington, i want to meet with you. i met with everybody, most of them said come on by. the one buy was peter. he wrote me a nice letter that said i'm going to out of town the week you are back here. however, i will give you a rain check.
[laughter] i looked and i said, i want to thank you for keeping your promise and giving me the rain check. he looked at the letter and looked up at me. he said you are this kid? yes, sir. points to the other guy. get out. take the tape reporter with you. we sat there for three and a half hours. we talked to me about everything. we talked about watergate. everything that he had seen. and gave me recommendations that i brought back to speaker gingrich and speaker gingrich adopted those recommendations. in fact, we called them the rodino rules. those were the ones that were put into play. as a postscript, he wanted me to come over later. i had to tell him later, i got to get back for votes.
but i'll give you the rain check. check time i come up, i'll come up and see you. by then, i was out of congress. i was inviolated for a speech. he's almost 100. he's not going to remember me. i did make a promise. he not only remembered, how's my wife, kids? i was taken back. i said i'm coming up. i'd love to take you to dinner. he said i can't do it. i'm recovering from major surgery. i don't think i can make it. maybe i can come by and bring dinner. as my voice started cracking, he said i served 40 years, i was on "time" magazine. you know, when i leave that place, nobody remembers you, nobody cares. i'm trying to recover from major surgery and not one of my former colleagues past or present has even called to say how are you doing? the only guy who calls me is a guy in the wrong party that came
20 years after i left. his voice started breaking. i said, mr. chairman, you need to know something. what you went through set a protocol on a standard that 25 years later when a another president faced impeachment, he adopted your fuels. that became the template. that's not a bad legacy for a kid from new jersey. he perked up. okay. i think we can go out to dinner. come over. sadly, it was not to be. he passed away a couple days later. i was always grateful for taking that time. i want to leave time for questions. this has hundreds, if not thousands. president ends up getting impeached. to say that we were unwanted when we get there would be woul- you know, would be a euphemism.
it was a bipartisan lack of appreciation. we were told very early on that, in fact, trent lott, the republican later, i don't care if you have pictures of this guy, america didn't want him impeached. you just lost your majority. i have 55 republican senators. 77 of them up for reelection next year. we're protecting our majority. we don't care if it's about perjury, obstruction of justice, anything. that was the welcome. the night before i started the senate trial, what i will refer to as a trial, although it really wasn't a trial, it was more of a sham. lott asks a group of us to meet. will you come over and do the meeting with a couple of other fellows. we went over there.
we were supposed to meet in the conference room. he said we'll be more comfortable. come with us, they lead us down the hallway. they take seats way up here in the committee. they have us sit down below them. they are in the circus. all that we were missing were the lines. we spent the next two of three hours, you shouldn't have brought it, we are going to ruin the case. everybody else is talking. henry looked at me like say something. i try to make the pitch. i said, senators, i have to tell you something. i said tomorrow for only the second time in american history, the chief justice of the united states is going to leave his court, going to come into your chamber, and is going to administer an oath to 100 united states senators to do impartial
justice. tomorrow when the chief gives you that vote in 20,000 courthouses around the country, judges are going to be administering the exact same oath to untold thousands of jurors. and if they can't take the oath, and if they won't take the oath, they can't sit as jurors. when i think about tomorrow, how many single mom works at star bucks, working in gas stations, who would rather be somewhere else and do something else will take that oath and will take that oath seriously. as an american citizen, i have to believe that when 100 members of the greatest deliberative body on the face of the planet take that oath, there's going to be the same degree of seriousness that i've seen jurors take it my whole professional life. there was a silence in the room. and these six senators looked at
each other and they looked at me and then they laughed at me. that was our welcome to the united states senate. we went through the trial. we knew it was a losing proposition. why impeach a president when 75% of the american people are opposed to it? if you think about it now in more historical terms, i think it's an incredibly interesting dynamic. because you had in the window period, politicians who are generally hard wired not to do anything unpopular. not to do things that rock the boat. not to make the voters angry at them. suddenly went from a position of wanting to protect themselves to realizing that there was an
important principal of law that requires defending. it had nothing to do with the president's personal life. it's a fascinating story. and this book chronicles it day to day. how slowly this all changed. how that dynamic changed. and the ultimate question is why do it? and this is why. why did i give up my seat in congress? it took me 30 years to get there. why was i willing to cast a vote and participate in something that i knew from the start was a loser? this is why. when the founders wrote the institution, they said a president can be removed for high crimes and misdemeanor. but they never define high crime and misdemeanor.
where do we get the definition? the definition comes from every single impeachment that the house faces. we had 17 or 18. at least i think we had 17 by the time president clinton came before us. mostly federal judges. a federal judge or officer is charged with something wrong, there's a vote on whether to impeach him. and that becomes the standard, the precedent or what is or is not. the evidence is not contraverted anymore. he cut a plea bargain. maybe you don't, because the press doesn't talk about it. on the last day in office, after denying and attacks us daily to avoid being federally prosecutorred on the last day in office, you signed the plea bargain with federal prosecutors and admitted he lied under oath and admitted to things we had charged him with. if we had no voted to impeach president clinton, we would have
set a standard for every future president that perjury, subnation of surgery, obstruction of justice, it maybe terrible, it maybe tacky, it maybe something that you can prosecutor the guy for later. but it is not a removal offense. my friends, let me tell you, democratic, republican, independent, you do not want to live in a country where a president of the united states feels they can commit perjury or obstruct justice and not think that that is anything more than a one way exit ticket from the white house. and that will always be the standard based upon the clinton precedent as long as members of congress have the spine to stand up to them. when i gave my closing argument in the senate trial, i told the senators, this is not personal to me. president clinton, i always had kind of a soft spot to him. he was charming to me. i first met him when i was in college. he was the attorney general of
arkansas. this is a bigger issue. i know that by being a part of this, i'm not coming back. i told the senator, i'm going to be defeated in my next campaign. and i was. i have to tell you a quick story about my closing argument. because it involved all of you here. i drafted for my closing argument what i thought would be the most important thing that i could say to my great grand kids as to why i was part of this losing proposition. and at the very last minute just before i spoke, chief justice rehnquist took a visit. he offended me, i saw the guy, because i'm irish, i started crossing out my speech and winged it. i spent months just crabbing to my staff, why did i do that? i've wanted to say something. my staff and some of whom are here tonight got so fed up listening to me campaign about
it they printed up the brochure which is essentially the lost closing argument. they made up 5,000. here, shut up. quit complaining. you are going to be in congress for a long time. wherever you go, pass these out, when you run out, we'll make up more. you do this for the rest of your life. the problem is not only long after that, i was defeated. i came with 4,950 of these things in the back of my car. so for those of you who get a book tonight or order one from the foundation online, you not only will get a signed book, you will be the proud possessor, you will now forever what i intended to say in the impeachment trial. i want to thank you for coming and appreciation you being here. i hope you enjoy the book. there will be a lot of stories that, i think, will curl your hair. thank you, sandy. >> thank you.
[applause] [applause] the congressman has agreed to answer some questions. i will come with you to the microphone and ask you to stand. do i see any? somebody over here. let's see. raise your hand. oh good, there you are. all right. i'm going to hand it to you. just stay right there. >> you probably don't remember me. this is a thing that i'll always remember. there was a law enforcement against fareway board. i run the first case. and the thing that they said is that hearing was they wouldn't be in the hearing today if my husband had not expired. so anyway, i won that case, and
they disagreed with it. so i called fareway ford to see how they wanted to make payment to me. they could pay it to the court. the court could pay me. they said we'll see you in court. luckily, you were my judge at that second hearing. [laughter] >> how did i do? >> you did great. because -- >> that's all i need to hear, ma'am. [laughter] >> because i was 79 years old, a widow, and they thought that woman doesn't know anything. we can scare her. she won't show up in court the second time. but as soon as you walked in, took the bench, maybe you don't remember, but i said i remember you, my husband and i respect you from the hearing of clinton.
i just changed my party. >> thank you. [laughter] [applause] >> well, all i -- [applause] >> i guess the lesson from that ladies and gentlemen, if you are a future litigant in my courtroom, you know how to start. thank you, ma'am, thank you. >> thank you. i'm not sure what the question was. thank you. >> oh. okay. >> two points, number one, have you in recent years talked to mr. or mr. clinton, and number two, you forget to mention your time in [inaudible] >> question is, did -- have i ever talked to president and mrs. clinton? well, my wife and i encountered mrs. clinton once about a year after impeachment. that's a story for a different book. president clinton and i actually after both of us left washington
for a period of a few years, had a very private but very cordial correspondence. he said i hear you write back and forth. i said true. i'd like to see the notes. somebody in president clinton's complain said he would never write to him. i think it must have embarrassed -- i think somebody got embarrassed that he and i were corresponding. there was a period where two old warriors were at least in touch. i asked newt gingrich about that once. he said he'll call me sometimes at 2:00 in the morning and want to talk about old times. i think he's like me, he missed the war. i don't know if that's true. president clinton, if you are listening. feel free to write, i will answer. it'd be nice to hear from you.
i hope you didn't hate the book too much. >> i want to ask a question. you've been in the legislative branch, you've been in the executive branch, you've been in judiciary with your new appointments, if you were advicing a young person who wanted to go into public service, where would you spear them? out of your experience in all of the branches? >> i would give them the same advise that attorney general of arkansas, bill clinton, gave me in 1978 when i met him. i was a young democratic and i was back for a conference -- [laughter] [inaudible] >> okay. [laughter] >> it's bill clinton. [laughter] >> she knows enough of my
speeches. she knows how to make a dramatic exit. i'm in law school. i walked up to bill clinton, i know your story, i have the same background, i want to go into politics. i don't know where to start. bill clinton took about 15 minutes of his so. i went even a constituent. he said go to high school. if you are going to be involved in the legislative process any way, it involves writing law. who better to know about the legal process than a lawyer? he said from a practical perspective, also, you have something to fall back on if you are a political desires don't fall through. and one the great ironies of that meeting is that it was 20 years, not just to the very day, but to almost that hour, that i was sitting in the house judiciary casting a vote. here 20 years later, our paths
intersected in a way that neither of us could have been ever imagined. but the advise that he gave me was first appreciated, second, never forgetten, and moved to be very good advise. thank you, everybody. >> book tv has 100,000 followers. go to book tv with schedules, author information, and talk to our authors during live programs. twitter.com/booktv. >> c-span local content vehicles in partnership with brighthouse networks traveled around the area to take a look at the cities literary scene. tampa/st. petersburg is the first of eight southeastern cities we'll future between now and the end of the year. >> which parties do you think are the most relevant to today? >> well, i would say the
american party of the 1850s. they were an anti-immigrant party, anti-catholic, anti-immigrant party. and, of course, in our history, we always say we love immigrants. we have the statue of liberty in new york harbor. we have mixed feelings of the immigrants. we want them, we need them, but we're always sort of suspicious of immigrants. now in terms of the liberty party, up until the 1830s, this was predominantly a protestant country. perhaps one or two percent of the population was catholic. starting in the 1840s with the potato famine in ireland, we had a big influx. they settle in the cities, they vote as a block, people resent that. you also have a dig influx of germans in the late 1840s
because of the failed revolutions in central europe. about half of the germans are catholic. they tend to scatter out to the midwest, they buy capital and land. the irish are very visible. take over neighbors. they listen to what the bishops have to say. the native protestant americans come to resent them. also prejudices against catholics in general. that go back in european history. so secret organizations start to be formed. one of them is called the order of the star-spangled banner. they asked what do you do? they say i know nothing. they get to be called the know nothings. so eventually, in the 18 50s,
they former political party called the american party, they do very good. then in 1856, they decide to run a presidential candidate. the whig party had faded after the election of 1852. it was only the democratics party at that time. the american party feels, gee, we can become the second major party. so they decide to field the candidate in 1856. they picked miller fillmore. he had been president. he ran with zachary taylor in 1848. he died in the office. he becomes the president. he was like a celebrity. they ask him to head the ticket. now the interesting thing is that he's not anti-immigrant,
he's not anti-catholic? while they are holding the convention in philadelphia, the so-called city of brotherly love, mr. fillmore is in the vatican meeting the pope. i guess nobody knew that in italy. it was not a problem. he comes back, the campaign runs, and they do very well. they get 22% of the vote. one the highest percents for any third party in american history. and what they wanted was their -- their platform was to extend the waiting period to citizenship for 25 years. at that point, it was five years. if you intended to become a citizen, you could vote. they want to extend this period to 25 years and take the franchise away from these immigrants. now they don't become the major second party because in 1854, 1855, the republican party is formed. they run for the first time in
1856. john freemont is their candidate. he gets 35% of the vote. the republicans in that election become the second party. the american party, you know, skyrockets then. but then they fade away because the issue becomes slavery, the war is approaching, the tensions between the north and the south. and people feel they really didn't accomplish anything. but i bring up -- the original question was how was it real tent to today? well, we've got -- we've got issues with muslims, we've got issues with mexicans. and in the late 19th century eastern and southern europeans came. italians, jews, and greeks, eventually the door was shot -- shut on them in the 1920s. the american party. there were earlier issues with immigrants. you wonder how when the first set of english se